I think that’s where I’m coming out. Not that my mind can’t be changed, and not that I don’t like what no-info rules are supposed to represent (I do), but….
The cardinal rule about rules is that they’re worthless if they can’t be enforced. And let’s face it: The only way to really enforce anything in a fishin’ tournament is with a polygraph.
Yeah there’s peer pressure and fear of being caught or being an outcast (and maybe being arrested), but obviously that’s not enough for some people.
But that’s just derby rules in general. When it comes to no-info rules, you’re up against two things:
1. History
Everyone’s always gotten help in tournaments. I’m not saying everyone now fishing does it, I’m saying that since tourney fishing began, a lot of it was about who you knew locally. And that’s still true. Most pros still get help.
Nothing wrong with it, right? Who wouldn’t want to find out everything they could about fishin’ spots or current conditions on a lake. And wouldn’t you maybe be stupid not to?
2. Technology
Forget it, man, Pandora’s box is wide freakin’ open.
Okay, you’re not allowed to use a cell “phone” (obviously much more than a phone now) on the water other than for emergencies, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
Fact is, info can be communicated, deposited, retrieved, etc. in many different ways now, and some are right on the line of no info rules.
Take this example. During the Classic I posted about “Info, Info, Info,” and in that post I included this example from BassFan’s Jon Storm: Someone has a website, buries some key info in it and then tells a pro where to find it. Technically that’s “publicly available,†but….
Well, I tripped over this the other day, which prompted this post. Check it:
Clipped from the web, click to see bigger (might have to click twice).
That, my friends, can’t be enforced – and may not be technically illegal. And as we’ve seen many, many times in the history of bassin’, the tourney organizations (some more than others) are actually reluctant to enforce some rules – especially at the pro level – for fear of tarring “the sport.”
Gimme a break. Is pro bass fishing a sport or not? If so, rules are broken multiple times in every single event in every other sport on the planet.
But bass fishing is different, you may say, and I’d agree. Seems that only our sport has rules that can’t be enforced!
More
Btw, what qualifies as “help?” Back in the pre-computer and pre-portable-device days, help was talking. Talking on the phone or in person to local folks.
Now it’s a lot of surfing and maybe super-secret, e-enabled communication. Re: surfing, that’s supposedly public info, right? So is that “help?” Is “help” only from individuals, not devices?
_____
Okay, done. I’m starting to confuse myself…. Let me know if I’m forgetting something here.
14 Comments
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Dwain
May 12, 2011 at 1:26 pm
I agree that anything currently unenforced should be dropped, or enforced. There should not be rules that only the “good” guys play by that can be ignored at will.
chris
May 12, 2011 at 2:20 pm
If the no-info rules are lifted or lightened up on, the practice period should be extended. I would assume that the anglers getting the majority of information are generally more established pros. The only way to compete with this is to have more time to practice. To think that a guy can compete with local knowledge on 2 1/2 days of practice is a little much to expect. Some guys wash out before they can build a network or bring something to the table in a network.
5bites
May 12, 2011 at 3:22 pm
I agree 100% with this article. You hit the nail on the head. What I think is funny is that everytime it’s brought up in an interveiw the pro being interviewed bad mouths people getting info and swears he never does it. I say bull to that.
Chris I don’t mean to be disagreeable but i think it’s the other way around. I would imagine the newer less established anglers are getting the most info. Take KVD for example. Hes been at this for 20 years and has a wealth of knowledge on lakes around the country. He should be pretty close to figuring things out when the schedules announced. A new guy has zero knowledge for most all lakes other than his local lakes. He having never seen these lakes before would be more tempted to get info even if it’s just about navigation. I would rather see a guy win by his own skill but if it were me staring out trying to make a go at professional bass fishing I’d probably get all the info I could. You still have to catch them.
chris
May 14, 2011 at 12:25 pm
I don’t think the information to do well at the Elite level is available on the internet, the info I was speaking of is from local/regional sticks that have significantly more knowledge than what can be obtained making contact with strangers online or over the phone. This kind of information requires a lot of networking. New comers generally have not established a network or have little to bring to the table to create one.
Chad Keogh
May 12, 2011 at 5:29 pm
An unenforceable rule is a useless rule. They should elimate the rule and let it be what it will be. The top anglers like KVD and Skeet insist they just fish the conditions, and if it works for them, chances are it would work for others if they’d stop listening to dock talk and locals.
Why would you want to take advice from someone who can’t outfish you? It would be like Dale Ernhardt Jr asking a DMV driving instructor for tips on the local racetrack strategies. All he could say is, “Keep both hands on the wheel and check your mirrors.” 🙂
Bass Pundit
May 13, 2011 at 2:57 am
“Why would you want to take advice from someone who can’t outfish you?”
How are you to know that? As they say on any given Sunday.
Rich Arnold
May 13, 2011 at 8:37 am
Are unenforceable rules really rules? Do we really have international laws without an international policeman? The only way the no-info rule can work would be for everyone involved to agree to it. We all know it happens and therefore is a bogus rule that only some choose to do. I hate to disagree with you as well Chris, but in my experience as a co-angler in both BASS and FLW top level events, only once did I ever get asked any local knowledge questions and it was a no-name angler. The big question to ask is “would having knowledge from a local angler really give a pro an unfair advantage given current technology (electronics\public media\satellite photos)?”
5bites
May 13, 2011 at 1:14 pm
Chad good comparison lol.
Joe Kastner
May 16, 2011 at 5:43 am
The ugly truth about tournament fishing is it all comes down to money and connections. Mechanically they are all about the same and on the water decisions are what make the top 10% so much better than the rest. Unfortunately the payout to expense ratio is horrible and even a guy who cashes a fair amount of checks will still need a good bit of financial backing to get started. Add to that the extensive network of help a lot of the pros have over the country, both personal and through their sponsors and it is very difficult to have a level playing field. I would love to see a trail similar to the original Classic. Put all the anglers in a plane before then know where they are going to announce the location at 30,000 feet!
admin (mostly Jay)
May 17, 2011 at 9:57 am
I would also love to see this return to an “everyman’s” sport, not a “privileged class” sport, if you know what I mean.
Lee
May 16, 2011 at 11:13 am
I just was a marshall at Murray this weekend. I asked the three Pros i was paired with this exact question. It was unanimous with all the Pros (one being a rookie and the two others being 20 years Pros) everybody gets help. One name came up everytime — the comment made to me was he shows up to practice to check fish not find them. Also phantom websites were brought up, this being a way pros side step the off limits period with public knowledge.
One pro even brought up why Elites do not use co-anglers anymore. Certain pros were paying the entry fees for guides to be co-anglers so they could practice together.
admin (mostly Jay)
May 17, 2011 at 9:58 am
Yikes.
Wacko
May 17, 2011 at 11:04 am
Me too Jay but it has long gone past that. Most of the tour level guys would have to get a real job like us “everyman”. Practice and fish tourneys when the boss would let them off.
That is probably what most of them should do anyway. Too bad there ain’t no jobs out there. I guess they might as well be fishing!
Fish4Five
May 19, 2011 at 1:43 pm
I’m glad to see Lee post the same thing that many of us knew / suspected for a long time. Not taking anything away from any of those guys but if you don’t have a very very strong supporting network behind you, it would be very tough to make it at the Elite level for very long.
I have also been in the boat with several of the Elite guys and they all pretty much say the same thing. If you dont have the money and the connections your not going to last.
One of the Classic competitors said it the best earlier this year when guys were whining about not getting any help, time to man up and get out there and get it done on your own.